So why do you think PFF has him rated so high, if their own stats didn’t have him rated so high? You seem to rely on their stats more than they do.
They could play the Heart(?) song after every good play.
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Seems like a lot of fun!
Still hoping for a trade down. Maybe we pick him up with the 5th pick?
You take the Elite Corner prospect at #3 in Okudah …PFF is a metrics stat site , the Elite CB prospects in College Football are the players that start every game , who lock up the best WR and offer a very little amount of data or stats to breakdown …
Quite simply any stat that is followed by % is useless for an anti stat player . the throws below take place on 1st and 10
Amik Robertson is targeted 5 times , allows 3 receptions of 8, 43, 57 yards & 1TD
Jeff Okudah is targeted 2 times , allows 2 receptions of 10 & 13 yards , 1 TD
If Okudah is targeted twice in the game and gives up 2 receptions , one reception with the QB in a clean pocket for 12 yards and the other reception while under pressure for 10 yds while battling a receiver at it high point … his stat line looks like this when % is used
Jeff Okudah clean pocket throw receptions allowed % 100 , Jeff Okudah pressured pocket throws receptions allowed 100% , Contested catch % 100% …Okudah allows catches 100% of the time when targeted, Okudah allows a first down on every reception , Okudah allows a TD on 50% of the catches he allows
Amik Robertson only allows a first down 40% of the time when targeted
Amik Robertson’s completion % 60%
Amik Robertson only allows a TD on 33% of the catches he allows.
Come on Air …Who had a worse day ? The % numbers say Robertson is far superior …was he ?
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I already did. Woodson 16 picks in 34 games. Okudah 3 picks in 35 games. I’ll go with the playmaker who won the heisman, NFL defensive player of the year and hall of fame.
The WRS and QBs Okudah faced in the big ten were MAC level bad and he still didn’t make tackles or create turnovers.
***another tid bit. Dre Bly had 20 Picks in 33 games in college!!
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No I do not. That’s why I had the disclaimer. But it’s not just their stats. He doesn’t make the top 5 in any major statistical CB category.
So why do they have him top 5. I’d say measurables weigh into that heavily, as do other factors.
Like I said PFF and most mocks had Greedy Williams top 5 last year too. We’re they right? Was Greedy a top 5 talent last year?
I think that they overrated Greedy last year and overrated Okudah this year.
Everyone needs to go and actually watch the Ohio State-Clemson game rather than investing in the hot takes that just don’t match up with the film. I went into thinking I was gonna see him struggle; what I saw instead was a great performance, one of the best by a CB all season.
He utterly blanketed a receiver corps with two guys who are going to be very high picks in the draft. They’re good players and made a couple of great catches despite being blanketed, but Okudah gave far better than he got… including making a play that should have sealed the game when he stripped Justyn Ross. For those of you who don’t think he’s a playmaker, go and watch that play.
I have a feeling he’s being overly criticized for a couple of high-profile mistakes: a terrible missed tackle on Clemson’s game-winning drive, and giving up the catch for the 2-point conversion to Tee Higgins after Etienne’s TD to take the lead. On the former, he blew it. A bad missed tackle. But he’s shown enough as a tackler over the course of his career that I’m not overly worried about it. On the latter… we always say no CB can cover forever and Lawrence bought Higgins a lot of time (5 seconds) to work free by bootlegging towards the sideline and throwing it at the last possible moment. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap when a 2nd round pick and a future #1 overall combine to beat a guy, no matter how good he is.
Anyway everyone listing his performance in that game as a strike against him needs to go and really watch it.
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Greedy had fallen off considerably by this time last year. I still think Greedy can be a good corner. He had a rough year with some injuries and his toughness was always an issue. Greedy’s player comp by Zeirlein was Antone Cason. Okudah’s was Patrick Peterson.
Okudah is not falling off like that because he is a very well rounded corner who does everything the Lions like their corners to do.
Maybe I just thinking you are making a point you aren’t making. If all you are saying is that we should trade down, then I agree with you. Experts get these things wrong all time, so nothing is certain. Lets hope they are right here if we end up with him.
He also laid the wood Ronnie Lott style on one occasion.
I love the kid. I’d prefer him at 5 than 3 but if we get stuck there and he’s the pick I’ll get over my disappointment in short order as I’m quite certain that he’s going to be a star cornerback.
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I don’t think he’s a bad player, it’s all about the value of the pick. He might very well be one of, if not the best CB in this draft. We won’t know for several years. He’s just not shown that he is a game changer like Woodson was, or a ball hawk like Dre Bly was. He is not likely to help the 2020 Lions, and maybe not so much in 2021. CB is a position you can fill in FA or via trade. No need to give away the highest pick you have had in a long time for a position that tends to struggle mightily for the first year or 2. If he was Woodson dominating, I might consider it at #5 or something, but nah. Not enough impact.
I thought Okudah played well too. That two point conversion is hard to pin on him. It was a jailbreak. He had him covered and Higgins didn’t stop moving. It was one of those plays where IMHO only Higgins and Lawrence are making that throw. Maybe Burrow and one of his guys. But elite stuff.
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PFF has near zero value when used in a manner that has % used as a metric unless everything is 100% equal in opportunities.
If Okudah is targeted 20 times and gives up 16 receptions and 5 TD’s he allows a reception 80% of the time and a TD 25% of the times he is targeted
If Amik Robertson is targeted 60 times and gives up 40 receptions and 10 TD’s he allows a reception 60% of the time and a TD 16.6 % of the times he is targeted
A 60% completion percentage allowed is better then 80% according to PFF as is a TD % of 16.6 % versus 25%
Amik Robertson is the better corner according to PFF if you use % as the metric
100% Nonsense and anyone that uses % in order to evaluate a position such as CB value with % when a lack of stats holds so much more weight for the position has no clue how to evaluate CB
I’m not a big PFF fan myself. Too many missing pieces. It’s kind of like how baseball went super saber metrics after that stupid Moneyball movie. Just evaluating stats doesn’t always equate to winning games. There are always guys in every sport that play better in “the moment”. Some guys go the other way. No stats in the world can predict that. PFF can’t account for when the plays were made, was it garbage time, was the opponent weak or strong, etc. A lot of guys can get a sack if there is a missing assignment and they go untouched. I’ll take the guy who splits the double team and still gets to the QB.
Higgins also grabbed and pulled Okudah for leverage (like a slingshot) to get the separation needed for the throw to be made on that Jailbreak
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See I don’t agree that CB is easier to fill in FA or via trade than other high-value positions like Edge or QB.
At Edge, at this very moment Clowney is out there to be had, Ngakoue and allegedy Judon are available via trade, Everson Griffen is out there. Dante Fowler, Robert Quinn already got paid. Last year the Chiefs picked up Frank Clark via trade and the 49ers nabbed Dee Ford, Trey Flowers signed with us, Zadarrius and Preston Smith to the Packers. Edge players get moved around all the time.
At QB Cam and Winston are just sitting there, waiting to be grabbed, and Dalton could be traded for. As little as 5 years ago having guys that caliber still available was unheard of, but we’re entering a time when QB supply is beginning to outstrip demand (especially considering how long QBs play now). Next year we’re gonna start to have trouble placing all of the guys coming out. When this happened 40-50 years ago, the NFL introduced a wave of expansion.
OT is the only spot where I agree, they’re harder to find after the draft. Saying that, the Texans did manage to get one of the best young OTs in the league from another team but it cost them a lot… and still, no more than Jalen Ramsey cost the Rams.
Speaking of Ramsey, he’s one of the best examples of a guy who wasn’t a playmaker in college going on to becoming a stud in the pros. He had exactly zero picks the year before he came out. For his career he had 3. And 4 total forced fumbles. Denzel Ward had 2 picks the year before he came out, but they were the only 2 picks of his career. He didn’t force any fumbles. Tre’Davious White had 6 in 4 years, Chris Harris Jr. had 3 in 4 years.
The fact is, if opponents won’t throw it your direction, it’s really hard to make plays. I think that’s exactly what happened to Okudah this year.
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See the link I provided above. It was from April 24th and PFF had him ranked 5th. Here’s the link again.
Let me make this clear. I do not hate Okudah. I liked Greedy last year but not at 8.
I like Okudah but not in the top 5. Definitely not at 3. I just don’t think he’s this can’t miss Elite level prospect others do. Personally I do not think the drop off from him to CJ is all that big either.
I think Okudah is a safe pick. But I don’t think he’s a difference maker type of CB that you should be getting in the top 5.
We all know BQ loves his safe picks so it wouldn’t shock me if this is where we go. But I’m hoping for someone with a little more spice.
I don’t think this is much evidence that Okudah isn’t a difference maker. You are using PFF stats, but don’t believe in PFF analysis? I think the stats can help, but regardless at this time last year Greedy Williams was not as highly regarded as he was earlier on by most draftniks. Okudah has consistently been rated highly.
I watched him in every game he was in this year. He balled out and he was a difference maker.
But hey, we don’t have to agree on everything. I just hope we get a great player.
Who is your guy with “more spice”?
no I think if we can land Okudah in the 3rd round I’d call that a steal…first pick? nope.
I wanna give this thread a bump and talk a little more about this.
Pre-draft I started a few threads like this one because I liked Okudah but not at 3OA. I just felt 3OA was too high for him. I never understood why the mocks had him ranked so high. Maybe they knew the Lions were super high on him. After all most mocks did project him to us.
In this thread someone compared him to Patrick Peterson. In another thread someone compared him to Deion Sanders. If I thought Okudah was that level of a player then I’d have been fine with him at 3OA. Problem is that Okudah isn’t at that level and I do not think he has the ability to ever be that good. I do think he could grow into a Probowl player like Slay did in time. I felt predraft that most Lions fans were over exaggerating his abilities and had far too high expectations of him.
At 3OA we should get an immediate impact player. A premium player. A real difference maker. Okudah isn’t that.
Think of it this way … what impact (as a rookie) could Okudah have on a game? Is he good enough to force opposing teams to game plan around? … is he a difference maker? … GB targeted him because they knew he was the weak link. … that’s not the difference maker that a 3OA pick should be.
I like Okudah. I really do. I think he will be a fine player but it’s probably going to take some time for him to adjust to the NFL. I expected growing pains from him … but he was never worthy of a 3OA pick. He was never going to step in and fill Slays shoes. At least not right away. A 3OA pick should be able to do that.
I do expect to see some ups and downs with him this year. I do think he will show promise. (At least I hope he will) I think he will have some good games.
After his rookie debut… I’m just wondering if some of you posters are starting to see what I was saying back in April? Or do you still think Okudah will be the next Patrick Peterson, or Deion Sanders?