Still Working On It

The Den
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Helen Mirren, really like her acting and like her even more for this…

Helen Mirren once said: Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective. Because if not, there’s absolutely no point.

Not every argument is worth your energy. Sometimes, no matter how clearly you express yourself, the other person isn’t listening to understand—they’re listening to react. They’re stuck in their own perspective, unwilling to consider another viewpoint, and engaging with them only drains you.

There’s a difference between a healthy discussion and a pointless debate. A conversation with someone who is open-minded, who values growth and understanding, can be enlightening—even if you don’t agree. But trying to reason with someone who refuses to see beyond their own beliefs? That’s like talking to a wall. No matter how much logic or truth you present, they will twist, deflect, or dismiss your words, not because you’re wrong, but because they’re unwilling to see another side.

Maturity isn’t about who wins an argument—it’s about knowing when an argument isn’t worth having. It’s realizing that your peace is more valuable than proving a point to someone who has already decided they won’t change their mind. Not every battle needs to be fought. Not every person deserves your explanation.

Sometimes, the strongest thing you can do is walk away—not because you have nothing to say, but because you recognize that some people aren’t ready to listen. And that’s not your burden to carry.

Whether it’s here on the board or anything else, the ability to simply walk away is tough, but that’s OK. Move forward, it’s worth it.

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Still working on it too, despite a lot of work in meditation etc. Having the ability to see the humor in it helps.

Like really, what are you defending online except your attachment to a screen identity?

The ego is not even a real entity. Neither is the mind, although that’s a bit more difficult to grasp.

If you look inside yourself and realize these things are actually fictions that you can’t find no matter how hard you look, just thoughts and concepts that have no physical reality, you can see that’s it’s all just a cosmic joke.

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I think I read that 90% of communication is non-verbal. Maybe that’s why it’s so easy to feel attacked on a board like this when maybe the person is just trying to make a point?

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I’m retired.

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While I broadly share this sentiment, I think the problem is that most people in an argument already assume the fact that someone doesn’t share their opinion is what makes them a moron.

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I think too that it can feel like an existential threat to a person’s self.

Not their physical self, of course. But we have the same nervous system as cavemen did, back when there were saber tooth tigers around.

Also, people still have a powerful fear of being shunned, a vestigial response to being kicked out of a clan when that could mean death in the wilderness.

Oh, and look at how chimps behave as a social group. The lowest status monkeys often have a really shitty life and spend a lot of time freaked out on cortisol.

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I think it’s a little more complicated than that at first, but at a certain point it reaches that for sure.

But I like to look back at our silly little Borom argument in here. My initial thought was they signed him so they didn’t HAVE to go OT in the 1st, even if they would prefer to. So, an option for plan B or plan C, but probably not plan A. Which put me somewhere in the middle.

However there were many in here saying no way, no how, under no circumstances should Borom start. I thought that was too extreme, and I said so. It wasn’t long before I was labeled a “Borom lover” by certain elements of the anti-Borom crowd.

At the same time, over on the Lions subreddit, I was arguing the opposite to a couple of posters who were certain Borom was a dead certainty to start, based on how he played last year, and that we didn’t even need to worry about tackle anymore. To them, I was labeled a “Borom-hater.”

You see the problem. Nuance is dead.

It’s this “if you’re not 100% with me then you must be 100% against me” attitude that is pushing people to the stubborn extremes of every argument. Because in defending what you intend to be a nuanced take, you end up getting pushed further and further to that opposite side of which you’ve been accused of being a part of. This is the process of radicalization. And it is happening everywhere.

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Well, if people aren’t using facts and reason to make a point I know it’s impossible to use facts and reason to try and change their minds. I grew up reading Emerson, always liked this one…" Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted . *Ralph Waldo Emerson." I don’t think of them immediately as morons, just misinformed. Now, if it is I who is misinformed of course the initial reaction is that you feel worse and not better when in fact you should feel better for learning something. I also know that some people are very good at debating and could win either side of an argument so I tend to stay in my lane as much as possible.

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So true. And of course those type of people love to argue as well.

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It’s 2026. Facts don’t exist. Everything is subjective. Everything is vibes.

You can tell me a fact, but my I just listened to my favorite podcaster who had a guest on who has no relevant field experience who said the opposite. So who do you think I’m gonna believe? You? Or the guy on the podcast?

And this is why I find even attempting to change anyone’s minds on anything an exercise in futility. Yet, I can’t seem to help myself in trying. Sometimes I learn something new when I’m looking things up though to argue/counter-argue, so that is at least some sort of personal benefit because the chances of someone changing a stance when the line has been drawn in the sand on a position are pretty much non-existent in today’s day and age.

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Man, you can say that again! Just said the same thing to a friend

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Yep.

I’ve been thinking about studying body language for when people walk into my office. Not quite sure what I put out (hopefully it’s good but maybe it isn’t), might get around to it within the next 10 years

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Look 'em in the eye when you are talking and nod when they are, whether you agree or not. The rest will fall in place.

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OR… The podcaster has a guest on who invented the thing he’s talking about, telling everyone it’s not the thing all the other “experts” claim it is and that they’re lying to you… Funny how people believe those who support their own narrative vs forming their own beliefs based on the information on hand.

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One of the things that it’s taken me 50some years to figure out, that I’m getting better at, is LISTENING. Like, you already know what you’re going to say. Why are you so anxious to say it that you can’t even pause for five seconds to think about something you hadn’t already thought?

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Sure, 100%. People are mostly seeking confirmation bias. It’s something we’re all guilty of. No one likes admitting they were wrong. Challenging one of your personal beliefs to the point where you’re willing to change it not an easy or enjoyable process for most people.

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I always laugh a little when reading these types of threads. A group of people talking about a different group of people and they never think that maybe they belong in that group of people they are talking about.

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Yeah, I think it’s hard-wired, as I mentioned above. Not so much a character defect, which I think is was is what is commonly assumed. People feel like they are dying. I do think it is a skill that can be developed.

Free will is mostly an illusion. Mostly is generous, too.

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Johnny Carson was the king for many reasons but listening was at the top of the list. Someone would say that they just got back from say Europe. You know how many people use that as an excuse to talk about THEIR trip? Johnny would ask them what their favorite part of the trip was, he stayed on point and made the guest feel like he cared, that he was interested. He would prode them instead of making it about himself.

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