Yeah, passing on Sewell for a lesser player of need is not drafting BPA. Now again, you can’t always just take the highest rated guy on the board, he has to fit what you want and a position you need as well…and OT is something we need…unless Vatai (or Dan Nelson or whatever that converted d-line guys name is) can step-up and play RT for the next few years at a high level.
MCD has already chimed in on wanting to look at Vaitai at OG first. That to me doesn’t scream we have a RT. Crosby isn’t horrible, but he is much more suited as a backup swing guy. Nelson amazed against Mack, then plummeted back down to earth the very next game if I recall. Total project IMO. I’d bet we get someone at some point to compete for the starting spot that isn’t on our team right now. We’ll see.
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Meh. He comps with Keuchly whose arms were even shorter. The WR depth in this draft is nutty good. I’d love to get a 3 down LB like Parsons then take a WR in the second. Then take the RT in the 3rd
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I didn’t just pull that 32” number out of my ass.
I know your trying to force a narrative that he has short arms for a LBer and this is an issue. He doesn’t have short arms and it’s not an issue for a MLB.
Theirs a data base with over 2000 players measurements in it dating back to the 80’s. You can go to it and see for yourself what the average is. Not all measurements have been tracked that long. The site does break it down by position for you.
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/micah-parsons
Here’s how he compares to Roquan Smith
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/roquan-smith
Here’s Luke Kuechly who has shorter arms than Parsons does.
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/luke-kuechly
Do you think they have short arms too? Do you think it affects their play?
Here’s the average measurements for ILB’s
So many things wrong with this group of statements that I’m going to bow out. I eagerly await to see Sewell “collapsing entire sides of defensive lines.”
You have little man syndrome to the max. Hes tried to make his argument 4 different times and you latch on to 1 thing and beat it like a drum because you are dead wrong but can’t admit it.
We all know your schtick now and its old.
Your wit is not hiding anything.
And with that…I’m out.
chances are pretty high Cinci drafts Sewell to keep Burrows upright before he ever reaches us, so point of the debate here is losing it’s potency.
I guess the website I was looking at was wrong then.
On the contrary, I’m not trying to force any narrative. After his pro day, I read that he had “short arms” and just wondered what you thought. Again, I know you strongly believe that arm length can be a big factor.
Here’s an honest question, I just noticed that the link you provided for Parsons has his arm length at 19%tile, the website I referenced from 2020 had Parson’s arm length at 16%tile if he was in last years draft.
If 32" is average, then how is 31.5" such a low %tile? That doesn’t seem to add-up.
Again, not saying 31.5" arms are a problem but something seems to be off on the math somewhere.
He needs 36 inch arms or he needs to complete his degree because football is not possible.
I know I’ve clarified this multiple times but I’ll do it again.
It matters for linemen. That means OL and DL. It matters the most for OT’s and Edge guys far more than it does IOL and DT’s. Short arms puts them at a disadvantage.
It doesn’t matter much at all for the rest of the positions on the field.
I’m surprised you fell for the trap. He used one type of data set when it came to lineman and another type of data set when it came to linebackers. He has an axe to grind on arm length. Every second you spend is a second of wasted life.
Because almost all LBers range between 31” on the short side and 33” in the long side. Makings 32” the average. Shorter and longer than that is an outlier.
Ok, thanks for clarifying.
I would disagree that it doesn’t matter much at all to the rest of the positions. I think it would be important for WR’s for high-pointing passes over DB’s and conversely for DB’s trying to bat passes down. I’d also think that it was important for interior d-linemen for batting passes down.
And for Tight Ends, if you’re 6’5" with short arms it would seem like it kind of negates that height advantage over a 6’3" LB when going up for passes. I mean, if both a LB and TE have the same vertical but the 6’3" LB has 2" longer arms than the 6’5" TE then they’re hands are at the same height when going-up for a pass…but that’s just my 2 cents.
Your argument reminds me of the age, old question “what weighs more a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers?”
The average arm length for a 6’4" guy is the same no matter what position he plays.
Both your and Air believe that arm length matters for OT’s and edge guys and I can respect that. I don’t think it’s such a ludicrous question to ask if when a LB rushes the passer that if his arm length matters or not…but maybe I’m just ignorant, I don’t know.
This all started with you questioning why arm length mattered for OT’s… your now trying to twist that argument into LBers and every other position. It’s not the same argument. Not even close… I know you don’t believe it matters for OT’s … but it does.
If your asking him to play DE and take on a blocker it matters (a little) but not even a fraction as much as it matters for an OT.
But your not asking him to play DE … your asking him to be a LBer and to blitz occasionally. There’s a big difference between the two and an even bigger difference for an OT.
If you recall. I’ve repeatedly told you that length matters for OT’s. Length in general … Including arm length.
Here’s what Jim Mora had to say about why Length matters for OT’s. It’s basically the same thing I’ve told you.
“It does make a difference,” Mora said. “It sounds like something very trivial but it’s very important because you’ve got to do a couple of things as an offensive tackle versus pass rush defensive ends. No. 1 is you’ve got to keep them away from the quarterback, obviously. In order to do that, you’ve got to be able to widen the edge. The way you widen the edge is with length. Length doesn’t always come in the form of long arms. It comes in the form of long legs, long torso, but it is your arms that keep the pass rusher away from your body.”
I know I’ve also tried to explain this you and that’s it’s not the only deciding factor. Some OT’s are good enough to overcome this disadvantage some aren’t. But having short arms often leads to OT’s being inconsistent. There’s a lot of data to back this up and that’s why the belief is so heavily rooted in football.
Here’s what Jim Mora had to say about that.
“It’s not the most important thing,” Mora said. “If you said I could have a guy with 35-inch arms but he had average feet and average lateral quickness then I would say, ‘Well, I don’t know, what’s my alternative?’ Then say, ‘OK, you can have a guy with 33 1/2-inch arms with great lateral quickness.’ I’d take the 33 1/2-inch arms with lateral quickness every single day. But the thing about the NFL is we’re always talking fractions of inches in a difference between a play being made and a play not being made.”
Believe it or not but their are teams who have arm length limits for both OL and DL and they won’t draft someone under that limit. I have never heard of a team having arm length limits for any other position.
Length matters is a well established belief in the NFL for linemen … it’s a similar argument why arm length matters in boxing … it’s the reason why in law there’s a principle called the arm length principle.
Length matters - I’ve done my best to explain why… You can respect my answer and chose to believe it or not. That’s your decision but there’s nothing more I can say on the subject that I haven’t already.
We’ve highjacked this thread and have gotten off topic. Let’s get back on topic please.
You can read more on what Jim Mora thinks on the subject in this article if you like.
Its not a matter of being ignorant its a matter of having an agenda and not letting the data be what it is. You made that same case of “well everybody at a certain height will have certain arm lengths.” Yes and no. You pulled up a filtered data set with just the OTs in the draft, not all of the offensive lineman. You did this to say “look everybody has arms at least X long!” Well no chit, because the guys below a certain arm length get pushed inside.
Have a good day.
Geoff Schwartz disagrees with you.
Joe Thomas, Joe Staley, Jason Peters, etc… all had “short arms”. It’s a tired discussion. It’s about how you use them, rather than the length.
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Jeff Spiegel
@JeffSpiegel
· Apr 2
Replying to @geoffschwartz
Geoff, help me out with arm length. 34" seems to be a standard, and the top graded guys more often than not are there or higher. What do you make of it? Does it matter? Obviously just one data point, but is a key one?
3:34 PM · Apr 2, 2021·Twitter Web App
Even the article you linked, Mora said:
“It’s not the most important thing,” Mora said. "If you said I could have a guy with 35-inch arms but he had average feet and average lateral quickness then I would say, ‘Well, I don’t know, what’s my alternative?’ Then say, ‘OK, you can have a guy with 33 1/2-inch arms with great lateral quickness.’ I’d take the 33 1/2-inch arms with lateral quickness every single day.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, arm length is just another variable or measurable. If you get locked-in to not having OT’s with shorter arm’s than X amount, then you miss-out on some really good OT’s.
You think arm length is really important, I don’t feel it’s as important.
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Yeah, I mean the Den two weeks before the draft is not for the fainted hearted. Hell, we’ve grown so old waiting for the Lions to like… go to the playoffs? … that were fairly tame compared to 15 years ago.
But its funny I feel like there is a tremendous knowledge base of the draft and free agency because of that here, as we all play amateur GM
With all due respect to Geoff, he’s never gone into an NFL game being “undersized” for the task. His arms are over 33" and he was 6’-6" 330 lbs.
But my position has always been that teams overrate arm length. However, it does matter. I also think while 34" is the “target,” a guy with 33" arms isnt really going to see much negative effect. I say once a guy dips below 33" it shouldn’t rule him out, you just need to look at the feet and hand placement to see if he can make up for it. A guy with below 33" arms with slow feet and sloppy hand placement probably needs to move inside. Otherwise take the guy and move on with your life.