Hock moving at all on gameday has been a 50/50 kind of deal…
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I played softball against both of these guys, when Happy Days rules the airwaves in the early 80’s, before Laverne & Shirley, I think. They brought the whole Happy Days crew, with Ron Howard in Left Field, Henry Winkler at 3rd, Gary Marshall (Director) at 1st, Red Head, who threw like a girl at 2nd, and Potsie Weber pitching. Ron Howard played hard, Fonz played every other inning, alternating between sign autographs and responding to his extremely whiny, red-headed plain looking wife. Talk about hen-pecked !!.I can still hear her voice in my head “Henry!! Hennnrrrrry!”.Felt sorry for him to be honest…Continuing…
Potsie Weber
I got up to bat and called to my teammates at KHJ-TV/KRTH-FM/KHJ-AM Boss Radio, which shared the opposite wall where Happy Days was filmed on Paramount Studios on Melrose Blvd in Hollywood, before I stepped into the batter’s box, “I’m going to knock that Pansy-Assed, Potsie Weber out of the game, sarcastically!”…I hit the 1st pitch as hard as I have ever hit a line drive straight back to the pitcher. He wasn’t much of an athlete as I recall, and forgot to get his glove up. The ball struck him square in the nuts as he yelled out a scream, and collapsed on the field. I thought I killed him !!..Garry Marshall, Happy Days Director, ran over from 1st base, along with their whole crew. I ran to 1st base, circled the bag, and ran over to him and apologized. Potsie blamed himself, but told me, "Don’t expect a Christmas Card from his wife that Christmas!!. We both laughed and he sat out the rest of the game. Happy Days, indeed !! - GOALPOST
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What if he wants $15m/year/5years?
So what?
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Loved it, man. Remind yourself not to play softball against the staff of Walker, Texas Ranger (unless Fox agrees to go with ya).
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So what? There’s a limited amount of money to go around.
The only way I’m ok tying up that much of a contract with a TE is if it’s Pitts, Kittle or Kelce. Or Gronk in his prime.
I like Hutch and i do believe the cap allows teams to be creative, but I’m not certain he’s a good enough player at an important enough position to tie that kind of money up, personally. He is still developing, but I’ve not seen enough from him in any particular season to justify that.
The “so what” approach would be a lazy approach to being a good GM imo.
I want to keep him, but $15m/yr seems to high. Hoping they can work out a better deal for the lions than that.
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IF he was healthy, it would be a different story. Dude is constantly hurt. Also…how much would he improve by having his hair. Improves your speed to lose 5 lbs of hair, I’m sure. Gotta get’r done, Hoch.
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That is the best story Ive heard in a long time…awesome!
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a vicious cycle
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I believe in the edict of resigning good players.
I also feel like that particular player needs to be substantially better than other options if they are demanding a lot of guaranteed money.
As always, Hocks real value is up for debate. I think he is what he has shown over the last two seasons, and I would pay (or offer) him accordingly.
I would not pay him over-the-top money based on some magical potential that he hasn’t realized yet.
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100%. Couldn’t agree more.
Statistically, Hock is very similar to Ebron. Would we want to give Ebron, or someone similar, $15m/year? I like Hock, I really do…but man, I just don’t see $15m. Maybe they’ll be able to lock him up long term for much less though. I’m operating off the premise that Kittle got $15m over a year ago…which may be the wrong way to look at the contract they may be discussing.
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If this deal happens, the initial numbers reported will probably shock some people. It will lead to some people’s head exploding here and then bashing of the extension. Similar to what happened when the initial numbers were reported for Josh Reynolds, and Kalif Raymond (both were inflated with NLTBE incentives).
Give it until the true numbers come out. Below is something I posted on a previous Hockenson thread a couple months ago.
Hockenson is exactly the type of player Campbell loves. He embodies that gritty hard working mindset. I’d be willing to bet the Lions have already made their mind up on committing to him long term and I would not be surprised to see this happen this summer. As other have mentioned, in two years you could be looking at 20mil AAV to resign Hockenson. I bet he would jump at getting paid now and something along the lines of what Goedert got should get it done. Give him a 4 year 60mil extension. Do not rip up the old contract. Would actually be a 6 year 76mil deal which looks a lot more reasonable, especially with the cap set to explode.
Hockenson is not the type of player you worry about packing it in when he gets a new contract. This guy is going to bust his ass to get better every day. Those guys are the type I would bet on.
Give him his guarantees early on in the deal so by year 4 or 5 most of his guarantees are paid. That way you could cut him with little dead money to take on, but a high base salary to give you cap relief if he is no longer worth the money he is being paid.
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Actually, one can argue that this is exactly the time to get him on a relative discount before he establishes himself, that’s if they believe in his potential to establish himself as an elite TE which is questionable.
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Lock Hock down. Pay him what the going rate is for good TEs. This club doesn’t get better by letting good players leave.
In terms of Chark, let Chark set his value here. If we can afford him lock him down too.
Chark, Jameson Williams, Hock and Amon Ra is a quartet of weapons any team would love to have.
Of that list IF Williams is the real deal Chark is the most expendable.
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I hope for Swift and Hoch to stay healthy. Too greedy?
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Hock’s deal should include escalators, not necessarily for total yards and catches but games played as well. With all the receiver options coming in to play not sure where that will leave him. Hope he signs to a “friendly” deal and lives up to our expectations as well as his own.
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Love it - I think they way they communicate, and what the mission looks like, it will be easier to sell the guys on incentive-based contracts.
Fingers crossed.
I like Hoch a lot, but that dude’s gotta stay on the friggin’ field.
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But by the end of the contract it will actually be alittle low, the way the cap is going up 15 million will be a deal in 4 year’s
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I get that.
The point I’m trying to make is that I’d prefer to set aside the “big” contracts for the best players at the most important positions if/when possible.
To date, as much as I like Hock, I don’t think he’s been an elite player and I don’t personally consider TE to be at the top of the pyramid when it comes to important positions. Having said that - If you have Kelce, Kittle or Gronk in his prime on your hands, you throw that logic away and do what it takes to retain the player. You want to retain good players, of course.
Maybe this will help to explain why I’d draw a line in the sand when it comes to Hock’s contract if I was GM.
Hock:
- 40 games played
- 244 targets
- 160 catches
- 10.45 yds/catch
- 12 TD’s
Ebron:
- 40 games played
- 202 targets
- 133 catches
- 11.24 yds/catch
- 7 TD’s
Gronk:
- 43 games played
- 262 targets
- 187 catches
- 14.24 yds/catch
- 38 TD’s
When I look at Ebron and Hock I compare them more to someone like Austin Hooper, a solid TE with respectable numbers earning about $6m/year. I like Hock more than Hooper, but as an example, I’d prefer to have Hooper and extend a player like Jamo if he pans out vs Hock and having to sign more of a bargain WR.
When I look at Gronk I tend to compare players like Kittle or Kelce to those numbers and see why the contract is up closer to $15m/year. I’d be ok retaining any of these 3 players and finding more of a bargain at the WR position, if needed. It’s difficult to have both (Note Tyreek Hill moving to the Dolphins as an apples/oranges comparison).
It’s easy to say “we need to retain our good players”. Of course we do.
A GM needs to think big picture/long term however. Holmes has a decent window here to overpay a player or two that he wants around over the next 3-4 years. I’d be ok if he wants to slightly overpay Hock but only if it’s a shorter deal…like 2-3 years before some of our younger core player’s contracts are coming up.
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Not a good comparison, IMO. Ebron was soft. Hoch is just injured. If Hoch can stay healthy, he’s gonna be a really nice TE for us.
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