You’re proving my point.
Bad plays are just those, bad plays. Who makes them, doesn’t matter.
I feel like you’re missing mine (and that’s why you feel it’s proving yours)
I’m talking about how they show up energetically, and how energy impacts the team.
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You’re approving of one, negative towards another because of what you look for. You over look bad plays by Stafford because you attribute them to the gun slinger mentality. His leadership of trying to make it work.
You attribute bad plays by Goff to his non leadership, athleticism, etc.
Where’s the consideration for the turmoil that seemingly existed between Goff and his OC for the first half+ of the season.
Did or did you not see a totally different Goff once they switched OCs? Once they got Decker back? Oncee they got Reynolds, a receiver he had some kind of history with? Once he developed some kind of chemistry and knowledge of wtf his other receivers were going to do?
None of that matters because you consider him less. In all areas you consider important. Not saying it’s right or wrong. It just is. All those same areas you consider Stafford to be atop of.
One gets hammered for mistakes, the other gets a pass.
We all do it. Hence my saying the way of the world.
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Assumption…and I feel a wrong one. I promise I did consider your words and look inward to see if I was actually doing that.
Stafford had turmoil more often than not with OCs, HCs, playbooks that looked like a toddler drew them up, and lack of talent around him.
You are exemplifying why I feel the way I to → how they respond to the worst case scenarios.
Matt’s energy is NOTHING like Goff’s. Not even in the same universe.
Yes, and it is completely irrelevant to my point.
I’m not talking about the mistakes…I’m talking about the energy they were made from, and how it impacts a team…I’m talking more about leadership style.
What I see…when things are good, and when things are bad…Matt is always Matt. I have said this repeatedly over the last decade…“he looks like the same guy that was put in different scenarios.”
I say the same thing of Goff…“Goff is Goff…he looks like the same guy put in different scenarios.”
NOt bashing one and excusing another…I’m identifying energy. I love both of these dudes. One of them has an energy that I “can be okay with if need be,” while the other has “an energy I love,” in terms of leadership. They would be equally as good as neighbors.
In terms of being a quality human, I like Goff in the same way I like Stafford.
In terms of being a neighbor, both of them are amazing humans.
In terms of leading an army - absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
Look, I’ve got nothing left. You look for what you look for.
Leading an army. Is there not more than one way to lead?
Was Patton a successful general?
Was Omar Bradley?
One would say that their “energies” were different. Yet BOTH were accomplished leaders of men.
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YES! This is a good way to put it. What type of leadership energy do you prefer…the smart teacher where there is very little energetic transference, or the intense, fun, guy who gets more results.
Every person’s energy is different. Goff is more reserved. Doesn’t impact a team as much as a “Stafford type” energy. Levels and layers of different energies. It’s not like a light switch where its on or off.
I’m not saying Goff can’t lead…I’m saying it’s not an intense. it’s not “warrior” energy. There are components of bravery to it. You can be brave without being a warrior.
I’m not even flirting with being frustrated, but I definitely do not feel like you’re understanding.
I think I do. As said many times before, I just think differently about it than you do.
You’re putting a lot of emphasis and weight into that warrior, high energy side.
I put a lot of emphasis on ability to play the position. Make the reads, make the checks because you can make the reads.
I firmly believe a guy could be a complete nothing in the locker room, but if his teammates knew he’d lead them to a 20-0 record with the SuperBowl victory, they’d not care one bit. Guys want to win.
If a guy like Joey was able to play the QB position to perfection. Took his team to yearly deep playoff runs. Multiple Super Bowl wins. You think his teammates would give one fuck about his not being an energetic leader? Other players would gladly pick up the slack.
Now, going out and sleeping with teammates wives, yeah that would be an issue. But just be being vanilla in the locker room, guys wouldn’t care as much as fans think.
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So true.
So do I, but I don’t view that as a component of energy…so it won’t come up in an energy discussion. Component of playing the position…sure.
Aa-ron Rodgers …yup. However, if the leadership energy is there, it dramatically increases the likelihood (see Tom Brady for extreme example, Peyton Manning for a great example).
YES! And the difference between “not care one bit,” and “I’d kill for this guy/follow him anywhere…” THIS is what I’m talking about, and has been our obvious point of contention.
You view it as a disqualifier towards Goff, huge bonus for Willis.
I give Goff the ability to play the position. I have severe concerns about Willis’ actual ability to play the position. Other have stated that as well. The biggest issue being his lack of ability to read defenses.
Again, it’s been covered numerous times. I totally understand your viewpoint. I just have a different one.
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Interestingly I never really saw Stafford the way I think you are describing. Never saw him walking up and down the bench rallying people like Brady. Never saw him being particularly fiery in games. Never saw him exude emotion in post game press conferences. He mostly offered platitudes with a 1,000 yard stare. Heck, he didn’t even think training in the off-season was necessary for the first several years of his career. remember the ‘isn’t my style’ quote.
I’m sure there’s some truth to what you are saying, but keep in mind it’s not objective truth. It’s filtered through your personal bias. Some evidence omitted, some added. We all do it. Human nature.
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You have underestimated yourself…. 
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I feel like I’m repeating myself a ton here. Having to defend something that literally is my opinion and that, yes, I truly do understand someone else’s viewpoint. Nattys in this case.
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No I don’t. I am okay with moving forward with Goff, if that’s what Brad wants to do. I am just a fan. I just want to improve if we can. Goff is what he is. In my eyes, he’s a 12-15 rank QB. Can you win a SB with that …absolutely.
Does he put you in the hunt for a SB every year…not close. I view Goff as a guy that would get us to the playoffs every year, maybe play in a NFC title game or 2…maaaaybe get to and lose a SB.
We are eventually going to start losing very talented players, because of drafting and developing players well. This causes flux to a roster, along with aging guys, injured guys, and FA. In years where wee have a little bit of a down roster, we would be a borderline playoff team with Goff.
Buffalo is a shoe-in for playoffs every year with their guy, and even in times when the roster fluxes south, they still have a shot at the SB.
I view Goff as a guy that you can get there with, NOT the guy that gets you there.
Same.
Im not attacking you, so you dont have to defend. It’s a choice if you feel that way, but just because you feel that way does not make it truth. I’m chill as a MF’r with no defense energy here. You feel like you are understanding me, and I don’t feel you are…no matter how much you claim to be. It’s no big deal. I’m not even trying to sway your opinion…just telling you how I feel, and how I see it.
Not even a fraction of a fraction of hard feelings, man. I like that you are willing to spend this much energy in helping me to understand your viewpoint. I feel like I do, but I also know that does not necessarily mean I do.
Gong!!!
I want to live in a world where that awareness inserted into every human being at birth.
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WHO makes a bad play definitely matters. Brady forgetting what down it is comes after a career of NOT making mistakes like that. Jamarcus Russell making the same mistake is part of a pattern.
Come on - No team is offering a 4th round pick to move up 10 spots in round one all the way to 2OA.
You point is valid your example isn’t.
I agree with you a lot but I have to disagree here.
Your contributing Goff’s energy level as a negative and Staffords as a positive. I think that’s what @Huskerdoo is trying to say. You see what you want to see here.
Truth is they both are similarly energetic. They both bring a level of energy and leadership.
I really think Goff gets a bad rap by Lions fans and there’s a ton of false assumptions made about him.
Watch this video, compare it to one of Matt’s and then can you honestly tell me he’s more reserved.
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Based on what Jim Caldwell did for both Matt Stafford and Joe Flacco, it sure would be nice to get him in here this year. I have a lot of faith in Jim Caldwell to develop QBs. Even veterans like Goff that have been around the block a few times.
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Some fans assume that there is always a “good” offer on the table. They assume the team had offers of 2000 points for a 2400 point pick, and the GM was just being greedy. And while that is true at times, there are plenty of times that the BS offers are the best ones on the table. The GM will make a vague statement after the draft that “we had no serious offers for the pick.” Again, some fans assume he turned down a good offer. They don’t factor in that there were no good offers to be had.
As fans we look at the draft and see many situations where we wouldnt even consider trading up into a certain spot unless they were giving the pick away. NFL teams are not stupid. They see the same thing.