Tracy Walker - I don’t need anyone to tell me how good I am

The War Room Detroit Lions — The Den
41

Umm no there not. Both guys are legit free safeties. That’s their strengths.

I don’t see it at all. In fact I’m 100% confident it won’t happen unless we plan to change the scheme we’re running.

If we change to a two high safety defense then sure we could run both Williams and Walker.

But as our defense stands now we frequently ask a safety to play downfield and in traffic. Walker has really struggled doing this that’s why when we use a single high safety it’s always Walker as the single high because he is best in space.

Williams is a better coverage Safety than Walker. He’s probably the best young deep safety in the game. He is far better at playing in traffic than Walker is but asking him to do so frequently is silly. It’s not his strength either. It would be far cheaper to go out and get a SS (see below) and the results would be better too.

With the defense we run it just doesn’t make sense to have both Walker and Williams as our safeties. I don’t see it happening unless we’re going to utilize a heavy 2 deep safety setup. Which is not the style of Defense the Lions claim they want to run. They want to be more package style. They want to be able to mix it up more. They want to run cover 1 cover 2 and cover 3 concepts. In order to do that you need a good deep safety. That would be Williams or Walker and then you need a strong safety that’s good at playing MOD, in the box and in traffic. That is not Williams or Walker.

I highly doubt we will have both on the roster.

It wouldn’t shock me if we targeted Williams and let Walker go.

Jordan Whitehead is the type of strong safety we need to pair with Walker (or Williams). I think Whitehead could be had for about 6-7mil a year.

I’m hoping we target Whitehead and either bring back Walker or grab a FS in the draft.

I’d love to have Williams but I don’t see him coming here unless we grossly overpay. Which I’d be surprised if we did that.

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42

“OMG we have too many interior pass rushers!”

I don’t think that’s a thing that teams actually say.

43

How could a player watch Stafford and not want out?

44

If the Lions let Walker take off, they better have a deal with Williams to replace him. The Lions have nothing at safety. And corner ain’t exactly stacked with experienced talent you can rely on.

I do not expect the front office to be super aggressive yet, but the point is to BUILD the team with talented players. You can’t line up cap space and draft picks on the field. And what good is cap space if you only want to squeeze players into value contracts. Detroit is going to have to overpay some players to stay here. I think sometimes fans who live in Detroit forget that.

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45

I also want to separately add that coaches and players have to stay and have to buy in for this to work. Last year it was bordering on criminal negligence to have Aaron Glenn work with that awful defensive roster. Like I actually felt bad for him at times throughout the season. You want to keep coaches like him and Pleasant then you don’t keep giving them table scraps and asking for a Michelin star.

That defensive roster needs talent. Badly. Sure don’t throw 90 million dollar contracts at 6 sack guys in FA like Quinn - but losing Tracy Walker over 1 million a year and throwing in a couple rookies is an example of how this rebuild could get stuck in neutral.

46

Nope - our current players are loving it and can’t wait to get back at it. Soon, there will be players wanting to come here to resurrect their careers and learn from the best, as well as wanting to come here to play for a winning organization.

No over paying.
Just winning and having fun with a great group of dudes that are getting it right.
Might take a year or two yet, but that’s the direction of the organization

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47

Table scraps are what he was left with from the last regime, not what he was given by Holmes. All of the coaches love him and buy in. The turds are kicked ot the curb, and the Michelin star talent love each other. Brad and Dan are why they would STAY…not why they would leave. Roster will improve dramatically with health and new guys.

48

It’s a bit existential as their futures aren’t written. We’ve seen plenty of players leave Detroit snd play better and as lions fans given what’s transpired in Tracy’s career
We can also point to lions as to why we haven’t seen his best ball yet

You’re still assuming you don’t want to pay fir an over pay so he’s an over pay if you give him what he wants

So you are suggesting he can’t be the $10m safety

Now again pleasant had said he needs to work. But he didn’t say he wasn’t good enough

The question I’m posing is

What of Tracy does play like a $10-$12 million safety ?

I said Walker thinks he can be that guy
Pleasant said he has work to do but hasn’t said he can’t be That guy

You said teams pay players for what they’ve done no matter what they expect them to do next. I’m not in full agreement there. I think they get paid for both. We see lots of unproven players get signed to deals with new teams with expectations for a bigger role.
Free agents aren’t all proven players and a lot get paid for what they will do on their next team

If the lions - pleasant - thinks he can in fact coach Tracy up to be a top safety that Tracy sees himself as why would it be bad to pay him ?

You don’t want them to pay Tracy because you say he’s not worth it.

I’d rather lions peg his worth correctly and build a winner.

I’m not saying what lions should do. I really don’t know. I’m glad they know Tracy well so should have a good idea of his worth and potential and character … that’ll help encourage me to think that if Brad is the right guy , that signing Tracy would be sound decision.
If Brad is not right guy then probably doesn’t matter what lions do with tracy.

If lions don’t re-sign Tracy
It wouldnt surprise me if he got a ring before the lions did.

49

Tracy Walker isn’t going to be a difference between a team getting a ring or not. He’s not that guy. In todays NFL I think we should be trying to upgrade both Safety positions, especially if Walker wants to get paid like he’s that guy. I can absolutely see them signing someone who fits more what they want to do and drafting one in the 2nd. Our CB situation is pretty decent. Let’s get a couple studs on the back end and one of the elite pass rushers at the top of the draft and we’re much better against the pass.

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50

Sure fine ok.

I didn’t say Tracy was the difference
I just said if lions dont re sign him
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him contribute on a winner.

Meanwhile we can hope the big free agent signing works out in the field at least as good as flowers and big v.

I guess y’all won’t consider the possibility Tracy can play better even though pleasant still suggested he can -

My question since I just want lions to do good business make good business decisions and treat the players properly while WINNING

Is what if Tracy proves you guys wrong and he’s actually still a young ascending player finally getting good support rather than being the guy y’all are labeling him as -

Would you feel lions made a mistake if Tracy gets paid elsewhere and becomes An all pro ?
Would you feel lions made a mistake if they sign him to a pretty big deal , yet he plays up to it ?

I have no influence on the lions

I’m
Not trying to be “right”

I’m asking how y’all would feel if …
What you expect to happen
Doesn’t …? Ie tracy much better than you’re crediting him for -

51

Let him walk. Pun intended.

He’s easily replaceable. Ram’s pulled Weddle off the couch, and won with him.

D-line is where the focus needs to be at the moment … not a safety that appears to over value himself.

By the way … I don’t fault Walker for being confident. If I’m a player, I’m shooting for every penny. Unfortunately for Walker, his production doesn’t back up/match his statements.

My guess is his street value is less than he thinks it is … the facts are he had low production on a 3-13-1 team.

Absolutely let him test the market.

52

Would you feel Lions made a mistake if Walker is what he’s shown to be and you paid him like an All Pro?

In the end, the entire thing boils down to Walker and what he’s capable of. Has he earned the team’s confidence that he should be paid 8 digits per year? Or, do they think he’s a 7-digit guy that can be a part of a defense as a contributor, but not the premier guy?

Personally, I’m just trying to read the tea leaves. If he was “the guy”, he’d probably be under contract already.

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53

I can see that happen in the Tea leaves and an obvious target in m Williams just like an obvious target they missed on last season was the Rams safety who signed with browns over the lions.

That left lions with the safeties from last year so
Should they have offered the browns safety more ?

As far as if he doesn’t live up to a big deal … one question could be

How much below it is he playing ? How much is the over pay costing the Lions ? Is he bringing any other qualities to the team ?

Hopefully if he was an over pay brad’s drafting helps them find other useful rookie deal players who are getting way under paid for their contributions.

Like it’s been said
I’m
Not sure either way it really makes a difference to winning.

I guess I like Walker so I’d like for it to work out In Detroit. I know some celebrated slays down season in 2020 but he played like a top guy last year. I didn’t really think it was wise for lions to match the golladay offer but I like Golladay , I think he’s talented and I hope he lives up close to it next year.

In the millen years it didn’t seem like former lions players continued in the nfl however since Mayhew there’s been a lot of guys who were lions and not deemed good enough or cost too much
Who have gone to contribute to winning clubs or just play well and show they belonged in nfl.

On culture , I think on losing teams it’s important to keep productive players who others see as leaders. Once winning kicks in , it’s easier to see losing those guys to better money opportunities due to winning

Vs

the player wanting to get out , get fairly compensated by view of market set by the league , and get to a franchise with a better chance at winning ( or location , or whatever priorities step up for the player in choosing )

I’m not saying that’s Tracy
I’m just sayin’

54

From what I have read, nobody is questioning Tracy being a decent to good player. He is a good safety at this point. Might he get better, I would certainly hope so, all players strive to get better at age 27.
Has the past 4 years proved him to be a GREAT player? No is the correct answer. So pay him as a good improving player, if some team offers him pro-bowl $$, let him walk. This is a prove it league. Until you prove it, you’re play dictates your pay. Not your potential.

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55

Honestly I like Walker but I think he can be easily replaced. If the staff decides to bring him back I won’t hate it if it’s at a fair price. He’s not a guy I would overpay for.

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56

I think you’re too invested in Walker

He’s a good player but if he’s expecting too much they will let him test the market

57

See, I think Mayhew was a lot easier to gauge. If he were in charge, we’d probably have him locked up by now. With the new regime, I’m just not as sure about how they view him.

58

I like the players. I liked a lot of the characters on last years team and almost prefer to see them become successful in Detroit vs seeing them elsewhere … they had good chemistry and played hard.

He’s expecting too much if he doesn’t get what he wants and that’s what helps set his value within the league. We don’t really even know how lions value him or exactly for what reasons - lions fans seem to present these decisions as if they’re huge mistakes or great discounts but imo remembering these contracts are investments in individuals. Is Tracy worth the risk of giving money because his character as a pro is proven he’ll put in the work.

If we read pleasant quote in a more positive way
" we both think there’s a lot of room for improvement " could be seen as an endorsement of Tracy’s character that he’s the type of pro willing to work with the coaches and do the work to improve. Especially since the lions stunted his development

If they draft Hamilton at 2
That’s also expensive but it’ll be because hamilton as an individual felt worthy of them to gamble on

Same if they pay Marcus

Easily replaced was Trufant for slay but I also agree , it’s not that I’m saying he’s irreplaceable but these are real people and relationships so I find a bit more value placed on guys who can play who fit the culture , glue with the team mates

They can replace Walker and get much better or just tread water
Unless msybe they get an Ed Reed or Ronnie lott who were locker room leaders who drove culture

Yea it’s just what is that number. Some eagles fan probably said same about big v as lions fans said about Glasgow.

Where these numbers end up depends on who sees what in the players so

Would you have a hard offer $6m not a penny more
So you lose him to Minnesota for $7m a year

Then end up replacing him with Marlowe and CJ

As Hamilton goes 1 , marcus signs with the Rams and …

I think potentially Walker could be most valuable to the lions because potentially the lions know him best as a player , then msybe we’ll see a deal signed where both sides agree it’s fair based not only in what he’s done but what they hope to see him do and he contributes to a winner in Detroit.

Or he continues elsewhere and hopefully the lions moves actually lead to winning

59

No…. I’m saying he’s not one.

Could he someday become one?… sure. But hey so could I… maybe the Lions should pay me 10 mil a year just incase I become one.

If he does then you pay him like one if you want to invest that much in a safety. But you don’t pay a guy 10mil when he’s playing like a 4mil guy. You wait until he actually earns it.

Walker thinks he is that guy.

I didn’t say that.

For the record - I said I wouldn’t pay him 10 mil because he isn’t worth it. I’d pay him 6 mil which is 2 mil more than I think he’s worth. I’m willing to over pay him but I’m not willing to pay him like a probowler. If I’m going to do that I’m going after Williams or Bates who are superior players.

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60

Ok

This I think is what I was wondering -
Often people assume the situation is just fo get a guy which is what many expected to happen with Johnson , the Rams free agent safety that signed with browns turning Detroit down

I like Thst you’d say you’d go $2m over where you’d ideally want since imo it’s a negotiation ideally wanting both parties to feel like they have a good deal.

If they re sign Tracy , I’ll root he can maintain the higher level of play he was at for a stretch last year and continue to improve now that it seems like there’s some coaching and structure to help these players step their games up.

I do think there’s lots of examples of guys getting paid for what the team thinks they can do , the role they have in mind vs only getting paid for what they’ve done tho. Some times it works , Golden Tate n Nate b ? Other times not so much Matt Flynn.