Could be but there is the HC/OC/QB guru who is recruiting you in Cabo telling you how great you are… then there is the one who was driving Goff crazy with his constant micro-management once you are under contract. Who really knows.
1 Like
Ahh… all great points… tip of the iceberg is all we will ever get. Stafford is a master of the under spoken to the point he makes hockey players sound outspoken… McVay is just really good at putting his foot in his mouth… all Jared does is ask if that rash got taken care of…
That’s Jared!
4 Likes
Judging from Kelly’s insta stories , a light weight request might’ve been made in 2019/20
With the “give us one more try” season from team before Stafford made heavy weight request.
3 Likes
all I can do is lol @ that statement
The dude went back in to a game with a separated shoulder and threw the winning touchdown before having to go on the IR from that injury.
He played a season with a broken back.
Seriously what the hell does this guy have to do to not be viewed as soft in your eyes?
3 Likes
Well maybe “soft” wasn’t the right word to use. Or at least I wasn’t meaning physically soft. More implying about his mentality/psyche and overall leadership. I think his leadership may be lacking in some ways though as well as his ability to come through in high pressure situations. But I wasn’t on the field or in the huddle so what do I know just a thought.
Also just to elaborate and clarify a bit (or not), sorry I didn’t mean to sound sassy or anything but I really don’t know. His teammates have always said he’s a great guy and QB. But, something just seemed a bit off with him when it was really high pressure, i.e. winning the division or playoffs. And also while I don’t think anyone can question his physical toughness, it definitely hindered him and caused him to have some bad games when we really needed him to run the offense.
Again, I have nothing concrete, just an array of opinions and observations over the years that have led me to think he may not have been a really great leader. Kinda like Barry in a way.
And for what it’s worth (not much) Jon Jansen was never a big Stafford fan and criticized his leadership. Like I said take with a grain of salt.
3 Likes
I think it had something to do with being on a super-shitty team.
2 Likes
I mean some years yeah, but they didn’t really have shitty teams for a lot of them. 2011, 2013,2014, 2016, even 2017 and 18, those weren’t bad teams.
Bad coaching in some aspects, ok I’ll give you that especially in 18. But it’s not like they were bottom of the barrel teams. 2011-2014 were good teams with really good defenses
1 Like
i know what you mean. he didn’t seem to have that anger at losing that some of the greats do. like a ‘losing is not an option’ personality.
seems the great ones can individually will a team to win. Stafford always just kind of seemed disconnected after a loss
1 Like
Yeah, it was just sort of weird that he couldn’t overcome a consistent talent deficiency, especially against teams that were clearly better in every way. I just don’t know about the guy. Can’t put my finger on it.
2 Likes
Like Detroit strong wrote above the Lions had some pretty good teams in the past 10 years. He played with some pretty darn good players to. I mean consider the fact of the other active thread on this board is discussing his main go to receiver for a decade is the first ballot Hall of Famer
I can’t recall a single game in 12 years we’re Stafford really put the team on his back and beat a really good team
1 Like
No, they haven’t.
Here are the ranks of the Lions running game and defense since 2010. I see one year with a really good defense (you know, when we should’ve advanced to the divisional round). Other than that, it bounced between mediocre and flaming garbage barge.
2 Likes
Ok, so compared to other playoff teams at the time, where did the lions rank? Surely not the worst. Look at the Giants who were what 8-8 and backed into the playoffs and wind up beating the Patriots. Did they have an appreciably better team than the Lions? I forget the year I’m sorry, but take the 2013 and 2014 lions… as @wesleysh21 has pointed out multiple times, Stafford had a bad year in 2013 when the Lions have a very good defense. That year was on him for a lot of it.
Look at the packers, have they necessarily had clear superior teams to the Lions in the last decade? I don’t think so overall.
It’s what you make of the opportunities handed to you. Stafford never seemed to make much of his opportunities. Yes he had some great comebacks in the middle of the season, went TD for TD with the chiefs in week 4… but what happened in weeks 13-17?
While those aren’t great they also aren’t the worst of the worst. A lot of middle of the pack. But I hear you too and I appreciate you posting those stats, although they only paint a part of the whole picture, and that goes both for and against Stafford
1 Like
Some of those defenses weren’t helped by all the three and outs when the offense led by Stafford couldn’t sustain drives. I’m not sure if you watch Lions games but there were times when the defense was going back on the field absolutely gassed
The rushing stat has been gone over ad nauseam here. For a lot of his career especially with Linehan and Cooter they gave Stafford pass catching running backs for him to stay in the gun and they used short throws as a de facto run game. And that’s a big reason why he racked up the yardage that he did. So it’s a little intellectually dishonest to say on one hand the quarterback is great for throwing for 4000 yards, but on the other hand, Let’s give him a pass for not having a great run game
A better way to look it up would be to take a look at the overall production of the running backs. Bell, Best and Bush were strong players on a pretty good team that included A first ballot Hall of Fame wide receiver
Also some of those defensive rankings shouldn’t have precluded Stafford and the Lions from getting a signature win. Yes the Rams have a great defense, but take a look at their ranking when Goff lead them to a Super Bowl. Most the years above in your chart show a better defense than the 2018 Rams
I know also that this post isn’t going to change your mind at all. We’ve all seen here on these posting boards that a lot of you will extend every possible excuse in every possible way for every aspect of Staffords time with the Lions
1 Like
Thank you for being able to elaborate and provide better details than I was, but what you said is exactly what I was getting at. Right on man.
Listen, I don’t hate Stafford, I liked him. He was a good QB for us. And in the words of Moe from the Simpsons, now that he’s gone I don’t wish him any particular harm.
In all seriousness though I think it was time for both parties to separate and move on. And while I don’t wish his career to die, I don’t really care if he doesn’t do particularly well. He had his opportunities here and he didn’t make the most of them. Blame him or blame the rest of the team and we have the never ending debate. But show me one signature win he had when it mattered to give us home field advantage, when it was a must win game… and show me all the 3 and outs and bad games and lost opportunities so they were never in the position to have a “must win” game for the division or a playoff spot. That’s where I feel in the end he came up short a lot.
1 Like
Short answer is, not well.
- 91% of playoff teams have a top-half defense or rushing attack.
- 71% of playoff teams have a top-quarter defense or rushing attack
As you start counting the teams that win a playoff game, those numbers get even more overwhelming.
The Lions never once fielded a top-half running game. Three times in ten years was there a defense in the top half.
Those aren’t playoff team stats.
1 Like
Playoffs? Hell we were just asking for a signature win over a top team
1 Like
Right on. However as @TNutZz stated, how hindered was the defense by the offense? Also, those 3 times he did have a top defense based on the analysis you cited, what did he do? What did the team do?
Also the games where they lost to a bad bengals team or a bad raiders team when they could’ve won and never been in a must win situation to inevitably get beaten by the packers at the end of the season, once without Rodgers, why is that excused? To me those were the must win games. Take care of business, beat the teams you need to beat and they wouldn’t. The game would be close, dumb 16-10 game or something, and the offense led by Stafford never came through. How many losses did they have where the defense allowed less than 25 points? Or heck even 20?
Also to @TNutZz point, the lions built an offense around Stafford to keep him in the shotgun and substituting a backfield passing attack for a running game. They worked with him, joe Lombardi aside who also said Stafford didn’t get his offense… that is neither here nor there… but still… he had a lot of opportunities and didn’t show up when it mattered and maybe when it didn’t matter so it wouldn’t matter later, if that makes sense…
I’m not trying to hate on him and I do appreciate the stats and other perspectives for sure. It wasn’t always his fault or always on him. But. At the same time, look at guys like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and given similar circumstances they usually came out on top.
1 Like
I feel like 2016 is a good example - and I don’t have the greatest memory either but there are 4 games here they lost by 20 or less. So you can’t completely blame the defense.
1 Like
Christ, this thread is still alive? Alright, it has earned it…
1 Like